News going over responses from the EU Commission on the issue of destroying games from members of European Parliament. Also some updates on the campaign towards the end.
0:00 intro
0:27 European Commission
13:06 France
14:09 UK
16:38 Germany
17:27 Canada
17:35 Brazil
17:46 Australia
18:48 What's next
Link to Canadian Petition:
https://www.ourcommons.ca/petitions/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4965
Link to short speech I did for the Pirate Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4KmZz-70bs
Link to full Pirate Party stream on game destruction (all in German):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBtQBB19eNA
https://stopkillinggames.com
Hot take: if you buy games filled with anti-consumer bullshit, you get what you fucking deserve. Stop. Stop buying single player always online games.
I know it’s hard. The trailer looks so cool that your credit card falls out of your pants and you buy the game before it’s even released. You even spend the extra to get that sweet looking horse armor. You even install the kernel level anticheat. You even install the launcher. You even create a third party account. You even agree to the EULA. You even buy the battle pass. You even buy the lootboxes. Then, after the corporation has taken as much as they could from you, they shutdown the game! Waaaah! Please government help me! EU Parliament do something!
Take responsibility. Nobody forced you to buy the game. You didn’t need to buy the game. Ubisoft literally told you “get comfortable not owning your games”. If you’re still buying their games you deserve what you get.
Edit: my disappointment in the gaming community is immeasurable. People are upvoting “this is just like being forced to work in a coal mine’s company town in the 1800s” in a thread about Ubisoft shutting down the servers to their 2014 online racing game “The Crew”.
Say I go to a furniture store, say the store is called Ubersoft, and buy a table. I get home and the table is lopsided and unbalanced. I call up Ubersoft and ask for a replacement or refund. They tell me to go fuck myself.
Next month I go to Ubersoft and buy some chairs. I get home and the chairs are lopsided and unbalanced. I call up Ubersoft and ask for a replacement or refund. They tell me to go fuck myself.
Next month I go to Ubersoft and get a desk. I get home and the desk is lopsided and unbalanced. I call up the store and ask for a replacement or refund. They tell me to go fuck myself.
I get real mad and petition the government that regulations are needed in the sale of furniture. They tell me regulations are not needed. I just need to stop going to Ubersoft for my furniture. They are right.
There are lots of companies making video games. Everyday, every single day, about 50 new games are released on Steam. They are not by the same company. It’s 50 different companies releasing 50 different games. 99% of them will not have always online DRM. They will not have game passes/battle passes/season passes. They will not have a third party account. They will not have their own launcher. They will not have kernel-level anti-cheat. If you got burned by Ubersoft, that sucks, but you can easily never buy from them again. There are a plethora of alternatives.
Say I go to a furniture store and buy a table. It has a 5 year warranty. 2 years later, it breaks, so I call Ubersoft and ask them to honor the warranty and fix it. If they don’t, then I can file a suit against them, i.e., for breach of contract. I may not even have to file a suit, as there may be government agencies who receive and act on these complaints, like my local consumer protection division.
I’m talking about real things here. Your example is a situation where the US government agrees that a company shouldn’t be permitted to take my money and then renege on their promises. And that’s generally true of most governments.
Supposing an absence of regulations protecting consumers like me, like you’re trying to suggest in your example, then it would be reasonable to assume an absence of laws and regulations protecting the corporation from consumers like me. Absent such laws, a consumer would be free to take matters into their own hands. They could go back to Ubersoft and take a replacement table without their agreement - it wouldn’t be “stealing” because it wouldn’t be illegal. If Ubersoft were closed, the consumer could break in. If Ubersoft security tried to stop them, the consumer could retaliate - damaging Ubersoft’s property, physically attacking the owner / management / employees, etc… Ubersoft could retaliate as well, of course - nothing’s stopping them. And as a corporation, they certainly have more power than a random consumer - but at that point they would need to employ their own security forces rather than relying on the government for them.
Even if we kept laws prohibiting physical violence, the consumer is still regulated by things like copyright and IP protections, e.g., the anti-circumvention portion of the DMCA. Absent such regulations, a consumer whose software was rendered unusable or changed in a way they didn’t like could reverse engineer it, bypass DRM, host their own servers, etc… Given that you didn’t speak against those regulations, I can only infer that you are not opposed to them.
Why do you think we don’t need regulations protecting consumers but that we do need regulations restricting them?
It looks like you believe that EULA rewrite the law; big news: that’s not how things works.
EULA could add something like
…AND, SOMETIME, WE’LL BARGE IN YOUR HOUSE AND TAKE STUFF WE LIKE.
After you have accepted the EULA and they trespass in your house stealing stuff, you know what will happen?
They end up in jail for stealing the same as any common thieves.
[BY POSTING REPLY TO THIS POST, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ALL YOUR BELONING ARE OWNED BY @alessandro@lemmy.ca. PLEASE CLICK ON THE REPLY BUTTON ONLY IF YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS]
Jesus christ does it say that? No it doesn’t. Everyone in this thread is constantly making shit up to make it sound like what Ubisoft did is literal murder. Selling things with no warranty is perfectly legal and the government isn’t going to overturn laws because Ubisoft is a shit company. Just don’t buy from Ubisoft! It’s easy!
Most licenses for software sold at retail disclaim (as far as local laws permit) any warranty on the performance of the software and limit liability for any damages to the purchase price of the software. One well-known case which upheld such a disclaimer is Mortenson v. Timberline.
Selling things with no warranty is perfectly legal.
You seems unaware that most countries have consumer protection laws. They cover mandatory warranty, health and security protocols (for physical stuff) and all sort of laws against planned obsolescence, fair competition etc…etc.
Just don’t buy from Ubisoft! It’s easy!
If you’re unaware that Ubisoft is going against consumer laws… well, of course you say so. Make yourself a question. If it’s perfectly legal for Ubisoft to “shut down” phisical videogames you bought in the store: why isn’t everybody doing so?
Make yourself a question. If it’s perfectly legal for Ubisoft to “shut down” phisical videogames you bought in the store: why isn’t everybody doing so?
I have no problem with you believing on the market auto-balancing itself at the sole benefit of the users. But it is just you believing something, and you are lucky you can afford to live in a way that enforce that belief.
In my country there was an unregulated market for everything (in the 19th), and workers (among them children) were getting very low paiement with the excuse that they weren’t working enough.
So I don’t believe in the auto regulated market in the benefits of users.
Let’s take the tobacco industry (based on slavery and addiction) do you think it is an industry that thrives on the good health of people ? No, tobacco needs regulation to start lowering the number of people killing themself with cigs.
You can make up examples (and I can do myself a all bunch of things with ‘ifs’) but I prefer some facts and some studies as arguments.
If your political stance on this is to just shut up… well, honor your political stance and…just shut up.
This is people who don’t fall into this crap telling people that did fall into this crap simply: “you don’t deserve this: let’s fight your, and our, way out”.
People who fall for this crap, is giving resource to the crappiest companies: and with money, the crappiest companies can buy their way back also on you.
Step 2: Deep dive on the game at a technical level
Step 3: Make a decision
Some people can’t even manage step 3 effectively, and you expect them to follow through with steps 1 and 2?
Not to mention “Dad can I have [game] I really really want it, it looks so fun and it’s all I want for my birthday” “Sorry Billy, but that game is anti consumer and locked into an always online DRM system, and I’m just not willing to support that.”
Like, c’mon. That’s just not how the world works, and we’ve known that for decades. That’s why consumer protection agencies exist.
You could say that about almost any product. Heck, you could say that about jobs as well. Don’t want to work in the coal Mines in the 1800s and get paid in company credits, don’t work at the coal mine.
It doesn’t work so well when everybody is doing the same thing and forcing it on people. Regulation exists for a reason.
Homie, you can’t always tell if it will be always online before you buy it. Game companies are notorious for hiding things like that and microtransactions in the pre-release versions, so many people who buy those games don’t know they are always online, or believe that they are confirmed to not be. Nevermind the ones that go back and change old games to add in shitty proprietary launchers a few years after release.
Why on this overwhelmingly zealous communist site are people upvoting this bullheaded victim blaming free hand of the market put down of consumers?
If you were paying attention you’d know the campaign is as interested in data preservation as it is the consumer-product experience. Troves of games and the art and effort behind them are being lost in a black hole because of these DRM problems. In a chicken and egg problem of this kind of abuse having always been the norm for customers because of our antiquated copyright systems you are mad at games preservationists for being hungry.
Moreover how did Ubisoft and these other companies who abuse these practices get those reputations? Oh yeah that’s right, by butt fucking people dry in the first place. Everyone has to have their own bad experience or read about one in the first place before they make it an axe to grind. You’ve definitely been burnt by these practices at least once and learned better right? So why should we not lobby for change?
Why on this overwhelmingly zealous communist site are people upvoting this bullheaded victim blaming free hand of the market put down of consumers?
If you complain about Windows having ads, telemetry, and security concerns on this site, you will be told to install Linux. They’re not using a bullheaded victim blaming free hand of the market put down of consumers. They’re telling you there is an alternative that has what you want. You don’t need the government to regulate operating systems. You can just install any one of the many Linux distros.
This is the exact same thing. Stop buying video games with anti-consumer DRM. Video games without these features already exist and are actually the norm. It really isn’t complicated.
You’ve definitely been burnt by these practices at least once and learned better right? So why should we not lobby for change?
Yes. I loved the Hitman series. It now has always online DRM. I haven’t bought a Hitman game since 2012. My life hasn’t been affected negatively in any way. I still have a huge library and backlog of other games without DRM. What would I lobby the government for? Remove DRM from Hitman? What a terribly insignificant thing to concern myself with. I have a backlog of other games to catch up on.
Hot take: if you buy games filled with anti-consumer bullshit, you get what you fucking deserve. Stop. Stop buying single player always online games.
I know it’s hard. The trailer looks so cool that your credit card falls out of your pants and you buy the game before it’s even released. You even spend the extra to get that sweet looking horse armor. You even install the kernel level anticheat. You even install the launcher. You even create a third party account. You even agree to the EULA. You even buy the battle pass. You even buy the lootboxes. Then, after the corporation has taken as much as they could from you, they shutdown the game! Waaaah! Please government help me! EU Parliament do something!
Take responsibility. Nobody forced you to buy the game. You didn’t need to buy the game. Ubisoft literally told you “get comfortable not owning your games”. If you’re still buying their games you deserve what you get.
Edit: my disappointment in the gaming community is immeasurable. People are upvoting “this is just like being forced to work in a coal mine’s company town in the 1800s” in a thread about Ubisoft shutting down the servers to their 2014 online racing game “The Crew”.
This isn’t working, it never have, consumers can’t ‘vote with their money’ in face of constant capitalism and heavy marketing.
This is why regulations are needed.
Say I go to a furniture store, say the store is called Ubersoft, and buy a table. I get home and the table is lopsided and unbalanced. I call up Ubersoft and ask for a replacement or refund. They tell me to go fuck myself.
Next month I go to Ubersoft and buy some chairs. I get home and the chairs are lopsided and unbalanced. I call up Ubersoft and ask for a replacement or refund. They tell me to go fuck myself.
Next month I go to Ubersoft and get a desk. I get home and the desk is lopsided and unbalanced. I call up the store and ask for a replacement or refund. They tell me to go fuck myself.
I get real mad and petition the government that regulations are needed in the sale of furniture. They tell me regulations are not needed. I just need to stop going to Ubersoft for my furniture. They are right.
There are lots of companies making video games. Everyday, every single day, about 50 new games are released on Steam. They are not by the same company. It’s 50 different companies releasing 50 different games. 99% of them will not have always online DRM. They will not have game passes/battle passes/season passes. They will not have a third party account. They will not have their own launcher. They will not have kernel-level anti-cheat. If you got burned by Ubersoft, that sucks, but you can easily never buy from them again. There are a plethora of alternatives.
Say I go to a furniture store and buy a table. It has a 5 year warranty. 2 years later, it breaks, so I call Ubersoft and ask them to honor the warranty and fix it. If they don’t, then I can file a suit against them, i.e., for breach of contract. I may not even have to file a suit, as there may be government agencies who receive and act on these complaints, like my local consumer protection division.
I’m talking about real things here. Your example is a situation where the US government agrees that a company shouldn’t be permitted to take my money and then renege on their promises. And that’s generally true of most governments.
Supposing an absence of regulations protecting consumers like me, like you’re trying to suggest in your example, then it would be reasonable to assume an absence of laws and regulations protecting the corporation from consumers like me. Absent such laws, a consumer would be free to take matters into their own hands. They could go back to Ubersoft and take a replacement table without their agreement - it wouldn’t be “stealing” because it wouldn’t be illegal. If Ubersoft were closed, the consumer could break in. If Ubersoft security tried to stop them, the consumer could retaliate - damaging Ubersoft’s property, physically attacking the owner / management / employees, etc… Ubersoft could retaliate as well, of course - nothing’s stopping them. And as a corporation, they certainly have more power than a random consumer - but at that point they would need to employ their own security forces rather than relying on the government for them.
Even if we kept laws prohibiting physical violence, the consumer is still regulated by things like copyright and IP protections, e.g., the anti-circumvention portion of the DMCA. Absent such regulations, a consumer whose software was rendered unusable or changed in a way they didn’t like could reverse engineer it, bypass DRM, host their own servers, etc… Given that you didn’t speak against those regulations, I can only infer that you are not opposed to them.
Why do you think we don’t need regulations protecting consumers but that we do need regulations restricting them?
It doesn’t. Before you buy the table they make you sign this agreement (which has a typo in it), explicitly stating there is no warranty.
It looks like you believe that EULA rewrite the law; big news: that’s not how things works. EULA could add something like
After you have accepted the EULA and they trespass in your house stealing stuff, you know what will happen?
They end up in jail for stealing the same as any common thieves.
[BY POSTING REPLY TO THIS POST, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ALL YOUR BELONING ARE OWNED BY @alessandro@lemmy.ca. PLEASE CLICK ON THE REPLY BUTTON ONLY IF YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS]
Jesus christ does it say that? No it doesn’t. Everyone in this thread is constantly making shit up to make it sound like what Ubisoft did is literal murder. Selling things with no warranty is perfectly legal and the government isn’t going to overturn laws because Ubisoft is a shit company. Just don’t buy from Ubisoft! It’s easy!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement
You seems unaware that most countries have consumer protection laws. They cover mandatory warranty, health and security protocols (for physical stuff) and all sort of laws against planned obsolescence, fair competition etc…etc.
If you’re unaware that Ubisoft is going against consumer laws… well, of course you say so. Make yourself a question. If it’s perfectly legal for Ubisoft to “shut down” phisical videogames you bought in the store: why isn’t everybody doing so?
Because people would stop buying their games!
I have no problem with you believing on the market auto-balancing itself at the sole benefit of the users. But it is just you believing something, and you are lucky you can afford to live in a way that enforce that belief.
In my country there was an unregulated market for everything (in the 19th), and workers (among them children) were getting very low paiement with the excuse that they weren’t working enough. So I don’t believe in the auto regulated market in the benefits of users.
Let’s take the tobacco industry (based on slavery and addiction) do you think it is an industry that thrives on the good health of people ? No, tobacco needs regulation to start lowering the number of people killing themself with cigs.
You can make up examples (and I can do myself a all bunch of things with ‘ifs’) but I prefer some facts and some studies as arguments.
If your political stance on this is to just shut up… well, honor your political stance and…just shut up.
This is people who don’t fall into this crap telling people that did fall into this crap simply: “you don’t deserve this: let’s fight your, and our, way out”.
People who fall for this crap, is giving resource to the crappiest companies: and with money, the crappiest companies can buy their way back also on you.
You are massively overestimating the technical knowledge of the average gamer.
This scenario is exactly why consumer protection laws exist. You shouldn’t have to be an expert on everything you buy just to stay safe.
Step 1: Understand all forms of DRM
Step 2: Deep dive on the game at a technical level
Step 3: Make a decision
Some people can’t even manage step 3 effectively, and you expect them to follow through with steps 1 and 2?
Not to mention “Dad can I have [game] I really really want it, it looks so fun and it’s all I want for my birthday” “Sorry Billy, but that game is anti consumer and locked into an always online DRM system, and I’m just not willing to support that.”
Like, c’mon. That’s just not how the world works, and we’ve known that for decades. That’s why consumer protection agencies exist.
As the old saying goes: a fool must be milked.
You could say that about almost any product. Heck, you could say that about jobs as well. Don’t want to work in the coal Mines in the 1800s and get paid in company credits, don’t work at the coal mine.
It doesn’t work so well when everybody is doing the same thing and forcing it on people. Regulation exists for a reason.
Homie, you can’t always tell if it will be always online before you buy it. Game companies are notorious for hiding things like that and microtransactions in the pre-release versions, so many people who buy those games don’t know they are always online, or believe that they are confirmed to not be. Nevermind the ones that go back and change old games to add in shitty proprietary launchers a few years after release.
Why on this overwhelmingly zealous communist site are people upvoting this bullheaded victim blaming free hand of the market put down of consumers?
If you were paying attention you’d know the campaign is as interested in data preservation as it is the consumer-product experience. Troves of games and the art and effort behind them are being lost in a black hole because of these DRM problems. In a chicken and egg problem of this kind of abuse having always been the norm for customers because of our antiquated copyright systems you are mad at games preservationists for being hungry.
Moreover how did Ubisoft and these other companies who abuse these practices get those reputations? Oh yeah that’s right, by butt fucking people dry in the first place. Everyone has to have their own bad experience or read about one in the first place before they make it an axe to grind. You’ve definitely been burnt by these practices at least once and learned better right? So why should we not lobby for change?
Like who are you Ubisoft Man?
If you complain about Windows having ads, telemetry, and security concerns on this site, you will be told to install Linux. They’re not using a bullheaded victim blaming free hand of the market put down of consumers. They’re telling you there is an alternative that has what you want. You don’t need the government to regulate operating systems. You can just install any one of the many Linux distros.
This is the exact same thing. Stop buying video games with anti-consumer DRM. Video games without these features already exist and are actually the norm. It really isn’t complicated.
Yes. I loved the Hitman series. It now has always online DRM. I haven’t bought a Hitman game since 2012. My life hasn’t been affected negatively in any way. I still have a huge library and backlog of other games without DRM. What would I lobby the government for? Remove DRM from Hitman? What a terribly insignificant thing to concern myself with. I have a backlog of other games to catch up on.