• Green13@lemmy.zip
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    9 months ago

    Twitch: “We’re going to pay you to stream.”

    Also Twitch: “No, not like that, or that, or that, or that, or that…”

    • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      It’s pretty well established that people go to twitch to watch people stream video games. There’s occasionally game dev on it. But you know what it isn’t intended for, porn, of any kind. And there’s little kids on the platform, so I’d say it’s a pretty good move to keep that crap off their.

      Saw some of the sexually explicit stuff get suggested to me yesterday that up until now I didn’t even know existed…seriously, a girl in a bathingsuit twirking her ass into the camera and asking people for money to keep doing it.

      It’s not a cam modeling site, it’s not a porn site. If that’s what you want to see, there are plenty of other platforms out there for that.

      • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        It’s pretty well established that people go to twitch to watch people stream video games

        Maybe that was true once, but I’m pretty sure the “Just chatting” category is almost always accounting for a massive chunk of viewership. That being said I stopped watching Twitch regularly a long time ago, so IDK for sure.

        • TwinTusks@bitforged.space
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          9 months ago

          True, I remember twitch was all for games, until last several times I went I was met with women with large cleavage on the front page.

          • That’s been a thing for a long time. Maybe not on the front page, but there’s been plenty of people using cleavage as major part of the appeal of their stream. I don’t see any problem with it. If people choose to watch streams for that reason, so be it. Personally, I started using twitch for politics streams/just chatting years ago and then branched into watching video games and occasional art streams.

      • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        It’s telling that the two comments disagreeing with you are by one person who doesn’t use twitch and another person who hasn’t used it in years.

        Needless to say I think you’re totally right. I don’t want to make it a prude platform but I also think treating it like Only Fans isn’t right either.

      • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I thought it was pretty well established that Twitch was like a softcore OnlyFans that caters to lonely gamers seeking parasocial relationships, but that’s just my impression as someone who doesn’t pay attention or care about this stuff. The few times I’ve looked at it the sexualized content was obvious and unavoidable.

        • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          How? I’m on twitch basically every day watching my friends stream. I follow a hand full of others and never has it been “obvious” that twitch is softcover OnlyFans.

          • Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            9 months ago

            There’s a handful of prominent streamers pushing the softcore meta hard but as a whole I agree with you. The people complaining about the children need to understand it’s a private company and they can do whatever they want, if parents don’t want their kids seeing that stuff then they should moderate them better instead of trying to push the responsibility of raising their kids onto others.

            • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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              9 months ago

              The people complaining about the children need to understand it’s a private company and they can do whatever they want

              I hate this response. It is so canned, so dismissive and hand wavy, while also being completely incorrect. It’s the kind of useless argument the right likes to parade around when they want to justify a business being cruel or even acting illegally in some cases.

              No, companies cannot do literally whatever they want. There are absolutely rules that govern the types of media that can be in certain spaces. There are different TOS’s for different kinds of access to content, different hurdle
              and benchmarks that must be met for certain users to access certain content. Twitch cannot do whatever it wants with impunity.

              I think there are a lot of valid arguments on both sides of this debate here, and I am also very much against “think of the children.” But no, again, twitch cannot do whatever it wants here. There are different laws in different countries that they have to consider.

              Edit: let’s also not forget that I am within my rights to express my disdain for what a company does, regardless if they have the right to do it or not. And to imply it is somehow immoral or otherwise reflective of our (lack of) intelligence to critique a company is patently absurd.

              • Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                9 months ago

                When I say they can do whatever they want, I mean it in the ‘they literally could just follow all those rules and regulations to just allow porn on there if they wanted to’ sense. There’s nothing stopping them from doing it besides money and the fact they’re allowing what they currently do means money is winning.

                There’s nothing cruel or illegal on what’s currently going on with twitch but I get what you’re trying to say. I’m just tired of people forcing their views on me because of their kids. Mind you, I don’t hate kids.

                • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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                  9 months ago

                  Why do you reduce it to “forcing their view on you because of their kids”? What’s this based on? How is your advocating for the opposite not you forcing your views on others by your definition? Why is your bar for what is appropriate more correct than anybody else’s?

            • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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              9 months ago

              need to understand it’s a private company and they can do whatever they want,

              That’s the crux of it.

              It’s their platform and they can make the rules for what they want (and don’t want) on their platform.

              If they want it to be a porn-free gaming platform, that’s their right.

              If they say “you want porn, go to a porn platform”, that’s their right.

              The reasons for those decisions could be many things, and probably are a combination of things. It doesn’t have to be “they’re just a bunch of nanny state prudes”…

            • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              I’m an adult and I don’t want to see softcore anything on twitch. That’s not what I use twitch for. As for the, you should just watch your kids better argument. Sexualization of anything to children is traumatizing.

          • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            That’s good to hear, I don’t use it. As I said, I’ve only checked it out a few times and that was not recent. My impression of it is apparently outdated, or doesn’t reflect a common experience. The times I looked at it there were half naked women in bathtubs and shit like that.

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        It’s not even just girls in bikinis.

        They put a camera underneath a clear chair, or kneel over it, zoomed in on their butt crack and gooch, with a tiny bikini barely obscuring the naughty bits. Perhaps another one focused entirely on their feet, and the third camera, from the front, adjusted in such as way as to clip off the bottom of their clothing at the edge of their bust so they appear topless, and then lick an ear-shaped microphone while a vibrating pad makes them jiggle.

        It is as close to porn as you can get. Which, also, they have links in their bio to their “list of social media” - the top one of which is usually actual porn of them…

        I’m not saying it’s wrong, but it is unsuitable for children and most people would consider it a form of porn or erotica, especially as it’s a forward bastion for their actual literal porn.

      • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        It’s hilarious to me when people argue for more censorship, especially when they do the ‘everyone should be treated like children’ argument. It’s just so dumb especially as it’s coming from people who’ll cry if they ban violent video games or any of the other equally problematic things that they like.

        Omg a woman is wearing a bikini, it’ll melt children’s brains if they see that! They should only be watching murder and crime and delusion political takes from manipulative liars and idiots…

        • mako@lemmy.today
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          9 months ago

          Banning violent video games is government censorship and is a 1st amendment issue.

          Banning certain behaviors on their own platform is entirely the perogative of the platform owners.

          The two are not alike whatsoever.

          Your argument is akin to saying that not allowing strangers to fill your home and smoke crack is “censorship” and is “just so dumb.”

          Disagreeing with the rule or the underlying reasoning is anyone’s right, but disagreeing with a private owner’s right to decide who and what is allowed on their property is insincere at best as you would never agree to your own rights being infringed.

          • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            You’re confused, you muddled your taking points - the 1st amendment applies to the us governments but the word censorship has no relation to that

            Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or “inconvenient”.[2][3][4] Censorship can be conducted by governments,[5] private institutions,[6] and other controlling bodies.

            So no I’m not talking about the first ammendment at all I’m talking about whiney babies crying that twitch doesn’t censor things they don’t like and if the topic is twitch banning content then I’m entirely accurate in doing so

            Please try to focus and think through what you’re saying in future

            • mako@lemmy.today
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              9 months ago

              You made it a 1st amendment topic by comparing private platform censorship to banning violent video games, which would be a government action that eventually gets a lawsuit seen before the supreme court.

              I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I make it a point not argue with people who resort to name calling and shaming others - these people aren’t here to debate facts or allow their opinions to be changed.

              I’m providing a counterpoint to your erroneous logic for other people to see and choose for themselves.

              • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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                9 months ago

                I’m very clearly talking about banning them on twitch, you really need to follow along. I never mentioned governments once.

                You think it’s OK for twitch to show gta6 to children as long as they don’t go in the strip club? A lot of people would argue that murder, drug dealing, theft, and all the other crime and immorality is actually worse. You might end up with a platform that only allows Nintendo’s most family-friendly shit.

                • mako@lemmy.today
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                  9 months ago

                  I think it’s ok for the owners of a privately owned platform to make decisions for that platform. If they want to exclusively show nudity, GTA6, or drying paint, I’m all for their autonomy.

                  Your autonomy allows you to utilize their platform or not based on their choices. If the absence of a focus on the groin, butt, and breasts on a green screen offends your values, I would suggest not visiting Twitch.

                  To bring it back your original comment, enjoying a platform’s decision to desexualize content while also being opposed to a government ban on violent video games is perfectly reasonable. The two scenarios are entirely different in scope and and context.

                  • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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                    9 months ago

                    So you’ve totally changed your tone, why would you have commented what you did instead of saying ‘valid opion, I’m sure they’ll choose to do whatever they want based on public sentiment so you expressing your opion is a totally normal and acceptable thing to do’?

                    You seem to want only people who agree with you to express their opinion, I’m not shocked of course that’s how censorship lovers slways think.

        • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Censorship is something the government does, and I have a problem with that. What a private business allows and does not allow is not censorship.

          As for, it’ll melt children’s brains crap. I happen to be a very fucked up person from sexualization as a child. I can tell you first hand, that being exposed to sex as a little kid is not something you want.

          Now, when the government starts doing shit in the name of ‘protecting the children’, you know that’s not the reason, and that’s much more dangerous.

          I think you’re getting the two confused.

          • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            No you’re confused, go read the Wikipedia article or a dictionary, you’re making the same mistake as the other guy trying to shoe horn in the ‘1stA only applies to government’ talking point where it doesn’t fit

            • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              If I’m mistaken, you should provide a source for that not just tell me to go read a dictionary. But, I’m not.

              It’s pretty well established case law that private companies are more or less free to enforce their own platform rules as long as it doesn’t discriminate.

              • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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                9 months ago

                Yeah that is the law, it has nothing to do with anything I said. I am very aware the first amendment doesn’t apply to private companies and it certainly doesn’t here because my country doesn’t even have a constitution let alone amendments to it.

                I was talking about people asking a private company for more censorship - if you read the Wikipedia article you’ll see in the first paragraph it explains your misconception that censorship is only something governments can do. Private companies can and do do it, I think it’s silly when people ask twitch to increase censorship because you’ll all be crying when people can’t stream gta6 because society got so slap happy on the censorship that murder, drug taking and crime got caught up in your crusade against seeing the human body.

                • and I did provide a source, Wikipedia. I trust you’re not incapable of finding the wiki page on censorship are you?
                • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  I don’t think you understand what the definition of censorship is. In either case, I’m not gonna keep arguing with you bcz its not really a fruitful discussion for either of us.

                  • mako@lemmy.today
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                    9 months ago

                    I believe they’ve completely lost the plot. They invoked the word “Wikipedia” as a cited source, they were unable to follow any point being made, but their comment in a different thread from a couple hours ago actually helped me start to understand what’s going on:

                    They started calling everyone a misogynist for no obvious reason. They were unable to communicate their thoughts in a meaningful way or interpret information presented to them.

                    Further, 17 hours ago, on a post that was clearly pro-piracy and not AI related at all, they commented, “AntiAI bros raging at this.” There’s zero relationship to the post.

                    I’m seeing a trend where they have their own opinions (censorship is always bad, misogyny is bad, AI is good) and then decide to share those opinions with tangential or no connection to that which they’re replying. They’re also fond of personal attacks and several common argument fallacies. Their comment history reads like a tribute to /r/im13andthisisdeep.

                    I hope it’s merely age and maturity-related and not something more permanent.

      • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        There shouldn’t be kids as a lot of the games aren’t suitable such as gta, etc

        If they must have kids on the site they should be restricted to only viewing suitable content.

        The rest of us shouldn’t have to be restricted to kids stuff

          • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            But surely you see how you can’t say ‘kids might see it so it’s banned but we can have this worse stuff because kids won’t be able to see it’

            Adult streams with nudity and violence use the same system so should be treated the same.

            And for clarity I’m not saying that they shouldn’t decide what their platform focuses on but if people are going to use the think of the children argument you don’t get to split it to allow violence without question but forbid nudity, it’s not consistent. Support banning both or neither with this argument or make a different argument is all I’m saying.

    • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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      9 months ago

      I’m not often on twitch anymore, but the last time one of my suggested channels was a girl in a bikini lying down on a massage table gaming, with the feed split screen with a camera on her oiled ass.

      I mean technically she was gaming but that was a level of blatant I couldn’t even.

    • mako@lemmy.today
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      9 months ago

      If their model was simply, “were going to pay you to stream,” then it would instantly be another egirl cam site which is not inherently right or wrong.

      They don’t want that. It’s their platform, their server space, and their rules. Similar to who you allow in your home and what you allow them to do, they decide who and what if allowed on their platform.

      The “why” doesn’t even matter. Maybe it’s run by a far right Christian. Maybe they don’t want the liability. Maybe they have a vision for what their platform is and isn’t. It doesn’t matter. It’s their property and they decide what’s allowed.

      • baconisaveg@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        I think a lot of people are under the false impression that when a private entity becomes ubiquitous enough it somehow magically becomes a public service, because I keep seeing them spout first amendment claims whenever someone gets banned or demonetized off youtube …