The analogy applies perfectly well to people like me who have stopped playing the game. If they let me refund it’d be pretty stupid. It doesn’t matter what they do, I would choose more money.
You are applying a standard to the game that applies to YOU. Other players who are currently playing a game do not care that you are finished playing the game. They are not. The game did not ship with a 3 month subscription plan. It shipped as a sold product. Your analogy is like an all-you-can-eat buffet where after twenty minutes they close it down and make everyone stop eating, and your argument is, “Well, I’M full. It’s fine.”
Sure. I agree. I never said it applied to everyone. However, how do you identify people who have left the buffet and come back and those who are still there? There’s no good way to do that with a game.
It’d be horrible business to give refunds to people every time a game changes, especially if you include people who aren’t even effected by it.
Be mad about it, especially at Sony, but don’t expect a refund. That’s not coming.
This is Sony’s decision. It is a material change to the product that was sold. It is not the same as a patch or a nerf. It has rendered the product unplayable. Yes, you can make the argument that it was listed on the page from the beginning that an account was required, but it is also the case that EULAs are actually not legally binding contracts. Sony has made a unilateral decision, and as a result it does not matter whether a person is finished with the game or not. This is a change to the actual contract, which was the purchase of a game to use in perpetuity for the length of time that it is available on steam. Sony has made this decision, customers don’t have to justify the reason that they don’t like the change. It is a change. They are counting on people letting it slide, because most of the time that is how businesses do business.
Also, you should really stop standing up for giant corporations. Sony doesn’t need your help. They have teams of lawyers whose job it is to argue with valve over whether they need to give refunds. They may also end up having to deal with class action lawsuits, and potential legal issues with 177 countries which may have completely different laws of consumer protection than the US. That is not your responsibility.
Besides, one of the pillars of capitalism is rational self-interest, and that goes both ways, not just in the business side. If you can get a refund for something because a company has made a bad decision about how they do their business, why do you care about whether it’s fair or not to the company? They sure don’t care about whether it’s fair to you. Are you a Sony lawyer? Are you the “be nice to big companies police”? Let Sony and Valve, and possibly the court system, worry about what their legal obligations are, and you worry about your personal decision of whether you are going to take advantage of your legal rights. Don’t start judging whether others should or shouldn’t do the same.
Also, you should really stop standing up for giant corporations. Sony doesn’t need your help.
Yeah… That’s not what I’m doing. I’m just trying to explain to people why their demand of a refund just is not going to happen. It’s not a defence of the actions. It’s a response to people expecting something unreasonable.
Sure, it’s a material change to the product. If you buy a smart device and they stop support, do you expect a refund? That’s not how this works ever. It’s not going to happen. Maybe people living in regions that don’t have PSN support will, but not everyone else. I don’t have a PSN account even, and I won’t be making one no matter what. I recognize that there’s no way Sony or Valve are going to take a tens of millions (probably) dollar loss.
Besides, one of the pillars of capitalism is rational self-interest, and that goes both ways, not just in the business side. If you can get a refund for something because a company has made a bad decision about how they do their business, why do you care about whether it’s fair or not to the company?
I don’t care if it’s “fair”. I said I would take it. I don’t give a shit about Sony or Valves bottom line. I just know it’s not going to happen because there are plenty of reasons it wouldn’t be offered.
Let Sony and Valve, and possibly the court system, worry about what their legal obligations are.
There is absolutely zero legal obligation here. You purchased a product and agreed to a license. They can add a requirement for an account at any time. Plenty of games get sold to a different company and require an account with that new company. No one has ever reasonably argued they should be refunded for that. It’d be ridiculous. There’s no refund coming.
The analogy applies perfectly well to people like me who have stopped playing the game. If they let me refund it’d be pretty stupid. It doesn’t matter what they do, I would choose more money.
You should probably attempt to understand the topic / post before diving in.
If they did not want that to happen, they should not materially change the game.
OK, sure change access. Materially change? So they shouldn’t patch it? If your favorite gun gets a nerf, refund?
According to some players, yes lmao
Yeah, and that’s an extremely stupid reason why someone should get to refund.
You are applying a standard to the game that applies to YOU. Other players who are currently playing a game do not care that you are finished playing the game. They are not. The game did not ship with a 3 month subscription plan. It shipped as a sold product. Your analogy is like an all-you-can-eat buffet where after twenty minutes they close it down and make everyone stop eating, and your argument is, “Well, I’M full. It’s fine.”
Sure. I agree. I never said it applied to everyone. However, how do you identify people who have left the buffet and come back and those who are still there? There’s no good way to do that with a game.
It’d be horrible business to give refunds to people every time a game changes, especially if you include people who aren’t even effected by it.
Be mad about it, especially at Sony, but don’t expect a refund. That’s not coming.
This is Sony’s decision. It is a material change to the product that was sold. It is not the same as a patch or a nerf. It has rendered the product unplayable. Yes, you can make the argument that it was listed on the page from the beginning that an account was required, but it is also the case that EULAs are actually not legally binding contracts. Sony has made a unilateral decision, and as a result it does not matter whether a person is finished with the game or not. This is a change to the actual contract, which was the purchase of a game to use in perpetuity for the length of time that it is available on steam. Sony has made this decision, customers don’t have to justify the reason that they don’t like the change. It is a change. They are counting on people letting it slide, because most of the time that is how businesses do business.
Also, you should really stop standing up for giant corporations. Sony doesn’t need your help. They have teams of lawyers whose job it is to argue with valve over whether they need to give refunds. They may also end up having to deal with class action lawsuits, and potential legal issues with 177 countries which may have completely different laws of consumer protection than the US. That is not your responsibility.
Besides, one of the pillars of capitalism is rational self-interest, and that goes both ways, not just in the business side. If you can get a refund for something because a company has made a bad decision about how they do their business, why do you care about whether it’s fair or not to the company? They sure don’t care about whether it’s fair to you. Are you a Sony lawyer? Are you the “be nice to big companies police”? Let Sony and Valve, and possibly the court system, worry about what their legal obligations are, and you worry about your personal decision of whether you are going to take advantage of your legal rights. Don’t start judging whether others should or shouldn’t do the same.
Yeah… That’s not what I’m doing. I’m just trying to explain to people why their demand of a refund just is not going to happen. It’s not a defence of the actions. It’s a response to people expecting something unreasonable.
Sure, it’s a material change to the product. If you buy a smart device and they stop support, do you expect a refund? That’s not how this works ever. It’s not going to happen. Maybe people living in regions that don’t have PSN support will, but not everyone else. I don’t have a PSN account even, and I won’t be making one no matter what. I recognize that there’s no way Sony or Valve are going to take a tens of millions (probably) dollar loss.
I don’t care if it’s “fair”. I said I would take it. I don’t give a shit about Sony or Valves bottom line. I just know it’s not going to happen because there are plenty of reasons it wouldn’t be offered.
There is absolutely zero legal obligation here. You purchased a product and agreed to a license. They can add a requirement for an account at any time. Plenty of games get sold to a different company and require an account with that new company. No one has ever reasonably argued they should be refunded for that. It’d be ridiculous. There’s no refund coming.
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